USO Petroleo (ETF)

Acciones, ETFs
ElNegro
Mensajes: 10973
Registrado: Vie Dic 11, 2009 11:35 am

Re: USO Petroleo (ETF)

Mensajepor ElNegro » Mar May 05, 2020 8:47 am

elushi escribió: Como lo veo yo a los comprados en UCO como el caso de el negro o perzen, que quieren recuperar lo perdido, les conviene mas esta situacion. No asi a los traders q van por la timba diaria.
Porque el mayor riego de downside mientras se mantenga esta sobreoferta va a estar en el front month por el tema del almacenamiento. Quizas no replique x 2 pero si llega a haber otro flash crash al menos los contratos largos en teoria tendrian que estar mas limitados en la caida.

Es decir si me decis que junio/julio fueran a duplicar el precio en el corto plazo claramente no les convendria este rolleo forzado, pero como es altamente improbable que el oil fuera a duplicar en el corto plazo, lo mejor a lo que pueden apuntar es al priceo de una recuperacion en la demanda para fin de año, que es mas realista y probable en terminos de ocurrencia.

Yo la veo mejor para ustedes ahora.
Suerte!

Enviado desde mi SM-A505G mediante Tapatalk

Gracias elushi,pienso lo mismo...

elushi
Mensajes: 6368
Registrado: Lun Jun 03, 2013 8:03 pm

Re: USO Petroleo (ETF)

Mensajepor elushi » Lun May 04, 2020 10:46 pm

Como lo veo yo a los comprados en UCO como el caso de el negro o perzen, que quieren recuperar lo perdido, les conviene mas esta situacion. No asi a los traders q van por la timba diaria.
Porque el mayor riego de downside mientras se mantenga esta sobreoferta va a estar en el front month por el tema del almacenamiento. Quizas no replique x 2 pero si llega a haber otro flash crash al menos los contratos largos en teoria tendrian que estar mas limitados en la caida.

Es decir si me decis que junio/julio fueran a duplicar el precio en el corto plazo claramente no les convendria este rolleo forzado, pero como es altamente improbable que el oil fuera a duplicar en el corto plazo, lo mejor a lo que pueden apuntar es al priceo de una recuperacion en la demanda para fin de año, que es mas realista y probable en terminos de ocurrencia.

Yo la veo mejor para ustedes ahora.
Suerte!

Enviado desde mi SM-A505G mediante Tapatalk


ElNegro
Mensajes: 10973
Registrado: Vie Dic 11, 2009 11:35 am

Re: USO Petroleo (ETF)

Mensajepor ElNegro » Lun May 04, 2020 10:07 pm

ElNegro escribió: L unica que se valla en un nes a 60 :mrgreen: el oil entonces x tiempo el de sep y dic tienen que valer 70 y ahi desde hoy serian un 180% más el x2 de etf..
Ni yo lo creo :2230:

Se vaya :golpe:

ElNegro
Mensajes: 10973
Registrado: Vie Dic 11, 2009 11:35 am

Re: USO Petroleo (ETF)

Mensajepor ElNegro » Lun May 04, 2020 10:06 pm

L unica que se valla en un nes a 60 :mrgreen: el oil entonces x tiempo el de sep y dic tienen que valer 70 y ahi desde hoy serian un 180% más el x2 de etf..
Ni yo lo creo :2230:

paisano
Mensajes: 19074
Registrado: Mar Oct 10, 2017 11:59 am

Re: USO Petroleo (ETF)

Mensajepor paisano » Lun May 04, 2020 10:04 pm

ElNegro escribió: Pero esto lo hace para beneficiar o perjudicar??
Por que cambia a cada rato??

Antes lo habia hecho para rajar del contrato corto por el tema de alta volatilidad por falta de almacenamiento, ahora es el NYMEX el que le pide no pasarse de ciertos niveles y por eso tiene que hacer ese cambio.

Investments in WTI crude oil futures contracts are subject to position accountability levels and position limits set by the listing exchange for such contracts – the New York Mercantile Exchange or “NYMEX.”

On May 1, 2020 the Funds received notice from the exchange directing the Funds to not exceed an exchange-designated position accountability level in the September 2020 WTI crude oil futures contracts.

elushi
Mensajes: 6368
Registrado: Lun Jun 03, 2013 8:03 pm

Re: USO Petroleo (ETF)

Mensajepor elushi » Lun May 04, 2020 10:01 pm

elushi escribió:Bien ahi colgando la nota negro. No lo tenia a esa que los habian obligado. Pense que solo querian evitar tanta montaña rusa.
Lo que marcaste en azul (todo el parrafo en realidad) es clave.

Traducido se lavan las manos, "seguimos un indice benchmark el cual no contempla los contratos que nos obligaron a comprar, por lo tanto no podemos asegurar que vamos a replicar nada..."

Enviado desde mi SM-A505G mediante Tapatalk

Perdon, fue paisano

Enviado desde mi SM-A505G mediante Tapatalk


elushi
Mensajes: 6368
Registrado: Lun Jun 03, 2013 8:03 pm

Re: USO Petroleo (ETF)

Mensajepor elushi » Lun May 04, 2020 10:00 pm

paisano escribió: Sí a partir de mañana piensan tener 2/3 sep-20 y 1/3 dic-20, lo explican en esta nota.

https://www.proshares.com/media/documen ... 8638744508

Investments in WTI crude oil futures contracts are subject to position accountability levels and position limits set by the listing exchange for such
contracts – the New York Mercantile Exchange or “NYMEX.” On May 1, 2020 the Funds received notice from the exchange directing the Funds to not
exceed an exchange-designated position accountability level in the September 2020 WTI crude oil futures contracts.

In response to this notice, and to help manage the impact of significant volatility and other market conditions, each Oil Fund intends to transition 1/3 of its portfolio exposure from the September 2020 WTI crude oil futures contract into exposure to the December 2020 WTI crude oil futures contract by
the close of business on Monday, May 4, 2020. At such time, each Fund expects to have approximately 2/3 of its portfolio exposed to the September
2020 WTI crude oil futures contract and approximately 1/3 of its portfolio exposed to the December 2020 crude oil futures contract.

Exposure to the September and December 2020 WTI crude oil futures contract in advance of the benchmark’s May 7th transition period could have a significant negative impact on the ability of each Oil Fund to achieve its investment objective since these contracts currently are not included in the Funds’ benchmark. Similarly, exposure to the December 2020 WTI crude oil futures contract thereafter could also have a negative impact, as this contract is not scheduled to be included in the benchmark until the benchmark’s December roll. As a result, the performance of each Oil Fund should not be expected to correspond to two times (2x), or two times the inverse (-2x), as applicable, of the daily performance of its benchmark, and each Fund’s performance could differ significantly from its stated investment objective.

In addition, to the extent an Oil Fund has exposure to a longer-dated WTI crude oil futures contract (e.g., September or December 2020 instead of July
2020), the performance of the Fund may be expected to deviate to a greater extent from the “spot” price of WTI crude oil (which the Fund does not seek
to track) than if the Fund had exposure to a shorter-dated futures contract. Crude oil futures contracts (and thus each Oil Fund) typically perform very
differently from the spot price of crude oil. The performance of each Oil Fund therefore will very likely differ in amount, and possibly even direction,
from the performance of the spot price of crude oil.

There can be no guarantee that each Oil Fund will be able to implement the strategies described above or in its Prospectus, will continue to use such
strategies, or that such strategies will be beneficial. The percentage of each Oil Fund’s portfolio invested in futures contracts and other Financial
Instruments will vary from time to time. Recent global developments affecting crude oil markets and the markets for crude oil futures contracts have
dramatically increased volatility and increased the likelihood of investors suffering significant or total loss from crude oil-related investments, including
an investment in an Oil Fund.

Como el emisor hace el cambio después de las 16.00, recién mañana Bloomberg haría la actualización de la tenencia que muestra hoy.

Bien ahi colgando la nota negro. No lo tenia a esa que los habian obligado. Pense que solo querian evitar tanta montaña rusa.
Lo que marcaste en azul (todo el parrafo en realidad) es clave.

Traducido se lavan las manos, "seguimos un indice benchmark el cual no contempla los contratos que nos obligaron a comprar, por lo tanto no podemos asegurar que vamos a replicar nada..."

Enviado desde mi SM-A505G mediante Tapatalk


ElNegro
Mensajes: 10973
Registrado: Vie Dic 11, 2009 11:35 am

Re: USO Petroleo (ETF)

Mensajepor ElNegro » Lun May 04, 2020 9:56 pm

paisano escribió: Sí a partir de mañana piensan tener 2/3 sep-20 y 1/3 dic-20, lo explican en esta nota.

https://www.proshares.com/media/documen ... 8638744508

Investments in WTI crude oil futures contracts are subject to position accountability levels and position limits set by the listing exchange for such
contracts – the New York Mercantile Exchange or “NYMEX.” On May 1, 2020 the Funds received notice from the exchange directing the Funds to not
exceed an exchange-designated position accountability level in the September 2020 WTI crude oil futures contracts.

In response to this notice, and to help manage the impact of significant volatility and other market conditions, each Oil Fund intends to transition 1/3 of its portfolio exposure from the September 2020 WTI crude oil futures contract into exposure to the December 2020 WTI crude oil futures contract by
the close of business on Monday, May 4, 2020. At such time, each Fund expects to have approximately 2/3 of its portfolio exposed to the September
2020 WTI crude oil futures contract and approximately 1/3 of its portfolio exposed to the December 2020 crude oil futures contract.

Exposure to the September and December 2020 WTI crude oil futures contract in advance of the benchmark’s May 7th transition period could have a significant negative impact on the ability of each Oil Fund to achieve its investment objective since these contracts currently are not included in the Funds’ benchmark. Similarly, exposure to the December 2020 WTI crude oil futures contract thereafter could also have a negative impact, as this contract is not scheduled to be included in the benchmark until the benchmark’s December roll. As a result, the performance of each Oil Fund should not be expected to correspond to two times (2x), or two times the inverse (-2x), as applicable, of the daily performance of its benchmark, and each Fund’s performance could differ significantly from its stated investment objective.

In addition, to the extent an Oil Fund has exposure to a longer-dated WTI crude oil futures contract (e.g., September or December 2020 instead of July
2020), the performance of the Fund may be expected to deviate to a greater extent from the “spot” price of WTI crude oil (which the Fund does not seek
to track) than if the Fund had exposure to a shorter-dated futures contract. Crude oil futures contracts (and thus each Oil Fund) typically perform very
differently from the spot price of crude oil. The performance of each Oil Fund therefore will very likely differ in amount, and possibly even direction,
from the performance of the spot price of crude oil.

There can be no guarantee that each Oil Fund will be able to implement the strategies described above or in its Prospectus, will continue to use such
strategies, or that such strategies will be beneficial. The percentage of each Oil Fund’s portfolio invested in futures contracts and other Financial
Instruments will vary from time to time. Recent global developments affecting crude oil markets and the markets for crude oil futures contracts have
dramatically increased volatility and increased the likelihood of investors suffering significant or total loss from crude oil-related investments, including
an investment in an Oil Fund.

Como el emisor hace el cambio después de las 16.00, recién mañana Bloomberg haría la actualización de la tenencia que muestra hoy.

Pero esto lo hace para beneficiar o perjudicar??
Por que cambia a cada rato??

paisano
Mensajes: 19074
Registrado: Mar Oct 10, 2017 11:59 am

Re: USO Petroleo (ETF)

Mensajepor paisano » Lun May 04, 2020 9:52 pm

elushi escribió: no es tan lineal la cosa. principalmente porque cambian los holdings como se les da la gana, con lo cual no te serviria mucho saber un numero exacto hoy...
https://www.proshares.com/funds/uco_daily_holdings.html
hace no muchos dias tenia contratos julio y mucho swap, luego roleo a septiembre imagino que para reducir vol., ahora redujo exposicion en septiembre y swaps y paso una parte a diciembre. ademas los contratos largos tienen menos volatilidad con lo cual puede tardar mas en recuperar que el front month
ponele muy a vuelo de pajaro, calculo que los contratos largos sep. nov. y dic. deberian subir un 50% al menos para que el UCO llegue a ese target...

Sí a partir de mañana piensan tener 2/3 sep-20 y 1/3 dic-20, lo explican en esta nota.

https://www.proshares.com/media/documen ... 8638744508

Investments in WTI crude oil futures contracts are subject to position accountability levels and position limits set by the listing exchange for such
contracts – the New York Mercantile Exchange or “NYMEX.” On May 1, 2020 the Funds received notice from the exchange directing the Funds to not
exceed an exchange-designated position accountability level in the September 2020 WTI crude oil futures contracts.

In response to this notice, and to help manage the impact of significant volatility and other market conditions, each Oil Fund intends to transition 1/3 of its portfolio exposure from the September 2020 WTI crude oil futures contract into exposure to the December 2020 WTI crude oil futures contract by
the close of business on Monday, May 4, 2020. At such time, each Fund expects to have approximately 2/3 of its portfolio exposed to the September
2020 WTI crude oil futures contract and approximately 1/3 of its portfolio exposed to the December 2020 crude oil futures contract.

Exposure to the September and December 2020 WTI crude oil futures contract in advance of the benchmark’s May 7th transition period could have a significant negative impact on the ability of each Oil Fund to achieve its investment objective since these contracts currently are not included in the Funds’ benchmark. Similarly, exposure to the December 2020 WTI crude oil futures contract thereafter could also have a negative impact, as this contract is not scheduled to be included in the benchmark until the benchmark’s December roll. As a result, the performance of each Oil Fund should not be expected to correspond to two times (2x), or two times the inverse (-2x), as applicable, of the daily performance of its benchmark, and each Fund’s performance could differ significantly from its stated investment objective.

In addition, to the extent an Oil Fund has exposure to a longer-dated WTI crude oil futures contract (e.g., September or December 2020 instead of July
2020), the performance of the Fund may be expected to deviate to a greater extent from the “spot” price of WTI crude oil (which the Fund does not seek
to track) than if the Fund had exposure to a shorter-dated futures contract. Crude oil futures contracts (and thus each Oil Fund) typically perform very
differently from the spot price of crude oil. The performance of each Oil Fund therefore will very likely differ in amount, and possibly even direction,
from the performance of the spot price of crude oil.

There can be no guarantee that each Oil Fund will be able to implement the strategies described above or in its Prospectus, will continue to use such
strategies, or that such strategies will be beneficial. The percentage of each Oil Fund’s portfolio invested in futures contracts and other Financial
Instruments will vary from time to time. Recent global developments affecting crude oil markets and the markets for crude oil futures contracts have
dramatically increased volatility and increased the likelihood of investors suffering significant or total loss from crude oil-related investments, including
an investment in an Oil Fund.

Como el emisor hace el cambio después de las 16.00, recién mañana Bloomberg haría la actualización de la tenencia que muestra hoy.

ElNegro
Mensajes: 10973
Registrado: Vie Dic 11, 2009 11:35 am

Re: USO Petroleo (ETF)

Mensajepor ElNegro » Lun May 04, 2020 9:49 pm

PERZEN escribió: Gracias gente por la data... la UCO es una maquina de robar-estafar a ilusos... y la LPMQLP ... veré si largo en 20/25 si aguanto el empome.. :115: :pared:

Vamos a saber la proxima que UCO nunca mas :twisted:

PERZEN
Mensajes: 4257
Registrado: Mar Ago 18, 2015 10:46 pm

Re: USO Petroleo (ETF)

Mensajepor PERZEN » Lun May 04, 2020 9:31 pm

Gracias gente por la data... la UCO es una maquina de robar-estafar a ilusos... y la LPMQLP ... veré si largo en 20/25 si aguanto el empome.. :115: :pared:

elushi
Mensajes: 6368
Registrado: Lun Jun 03, 2013 8:03 pm

Re: USO Petroleo (ETF)

Mensajepor elushi » Lun May 04, 2020 9:20 pm

PERZEN escribió: Consulto...para que UCO recupere valor a 35.. a cuanto deberia llegar el oil-uso-contango y la rpqmp :115: :?:

no es tan lineal la cosa. principalmente porque cambian los holdings como se les da la gana, con lo cual no te serviria mucho saber un numero exacto hoy...
https://www.proshares.com/funds/uco_daily_holdings.html
hace no muchos dias tenia contratos julio y mucho swap, luego roleo a septiembre imagino que para reducir vol., ahora redujo exposicion en septiembre y swaps y paso una parte a diciembre. ademas los contratos largos tienen menos volatilidad con lo cual puede tardar mas en recuperar que el front month
ponele muy a vuelo de pajaro, calculo que los contratos largos sep. nov. y dic. deberian subir un 50% al menos para que el UCO llegue a ese target...

ElNegro
Mensajes: 10973
Registrado: Vie Dic 11, 2009 11:35 am

Re: USO Petroleo (ETF)

Mensajepor ElNegro » Lun May 04, 2020 9:17 pm

paisano escribió: Mira yo lo estimaría como en el Excel que te adjunto.


UCO.xls

Pensar que a estos precios del oil mayo estaba UCO 33

paisano
Mensajes: 19074
Registrado: Mar Oct 10, 2017 11:59 am

Re: USO Petroleo (ETF)

Mensajepor paisano » Lun May 04, 2020 9:05 pm

PERZEN escribió: Consulto...para que UCO recupere valor a 35.. a cuanto deberia llegar el oil-uso-contango y la rpqmp :115: :?:

Mira yo lo estimaría como en el Excel que te adjunto.

UCO.xls
(15.5 KiB) Descargado 27 veces

ElNegro
Mensajes: 10973
Registrado: Vie Dic 11, 2009 11:35 am

Re: USO Petroleo (ETF)

Mensajepor ElNegro » Lun May 04, 2020 7:32 pm

PERZEN escribió: Consulto...para que UCO recupere valor a 35.. a cuanto deberia llegar el oil-uso-contango y la rpqmp :115: :?:

Y si lo queres hoy ese valor mañana el oil en 40 tiene que estar..sino cada vez que pasen los días mas se aleja,porque el contrato a sep que tiene despues se pasa a nov y asi . Ahora lo mejor que tendria que pasar que el oil suba rapido a 30 el de junio así el spread es mas grande y sep sube ponele a 45 y ahi Uco valdria 40


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